In some places in the US the hybrid can have lower energy costs per mile. Using the average price/kWh of residential electricity and the average price/gallon of gasoline in each US state as of maybe a year ago (I haven't updated my spreadsheet in a while) a Toyota Prius would beat my EV (which the sticker says is 129 MPGe city, 103 MPGe highway) on the highway in 15 states: Alaska, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Texas, and Vermont.
The Prius would win in city driving in 8 states: Connecticut, Hawaii, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New York, Rhode Island, and Vermont.
For people who do not have home charging or cheap destination charging and have to rely on public DC charging stations the Prius wins in most states even with today's super high gas prices. If DC charging costs $0.40/kWh for example, the Prius wins on the highway if gas is under $7.33/gal and in the city if it is under $5.85/gal.
If anyone wants to check it for their particular electrify and gas prices, compute the ratio of gas $/gal to electricity $/kWh. E.g., if gas is $4/gal and electricity at your home is $0.20/kWh the ratio is 20.
The Prius beats an EV with the MPGe of mine on the highway if the ratio is under 18.325, and in the city if the ratio is under 14.625. To adjust for your EV multiply those thresholds by my MPGe divided by your MPGe. To adjust for non-Prius hybrids or ICEs, multiply the threshold by the other car's mpg and divide by the Prius mpg (56 highway, 56 city).
You can customize the costs for various thing and it has state level presests. You can also set PHEV utilisation factor etc.
I'm not sure how up to date it is, I see 2025 model cars listed but you can tweak gas cost, tax credits etc. if they have changed.
The very cheapest cars seem to still be ICE, not hybrid or EV but different state incentives/fuel costs varies it dramatically.
And you have to consider some other things like is the Nissan Versa ICE a comparable car to the Nissan Leaf EV? The former seems cheaper to run in the USA.
For better or worse (I say better), the Prius really committed to hybrid as its own form. Plenty of hybrids really are an electric motor and a ICE tacked together, and with that system, you're going to hit twice (at least) the problems of either one.
The thing I appreciate about the Toyota power-split device, is that it really manages to remove a lot of the ICE moving parts. You have no auxiliary belts, no alternator, starter motor, steering pump, etc, and for me and millions of other drivers, that's made getting to 200k miles a given.
I'm not sure which hybrid you have (and of course, ymmv) but I really think that nobody has done it like Toyota, at least until the 2020s
- I do 90% of my kilometers to commute to work: 2x40km / day
- I need my car to drive 7 hours roughly 4x or 5x per year
When driving long distance, I get to use the ICE while charging stations get jammed e.g. on peak traffic weekends. Consumption is much less than pure ICE.
Breaking pads are spared by the magnetic brake as well.
Norwegians have apparently figured this out. Despite being pretty damn cold, they’re buying EV’s almost exclusively now (97%).
That's exactly it, and why hybrids are very common in China outside the urban areas. Here in Japan there are still a lot of hybrids, and I and my spouse drove one (a rental) for a few days, in an area just like that - no charging stations, and, as we were basically tourists, no home charging options either. It was like any other car most of the time, except for the display showing how the battery got recharged whenever braking.
The interesting part came when we were finished with the trip and, as one has to, filled up the tank to 100% on the rental.. and it was almost nothing. Just had to top it up a little bit, that was all.
My kids are soon to reach driving age and that means they can drive themselves - but only if I have another car.
I wish I lived where transit existed, but that is a different rant.
If you include the other efficiency tweaks like aerodynamics, wheel choices, etc., then an ICE car can also do very well in those highway conditions. But, the optimized or "right-sized" ICE for highway cruising may feel underpowered in some conditions. The hybrid also helps here, much like a turbocharger, by boosting power output temporarily to mitigate this.
I remember talking to a coworker would couldn't accept taking 10 hours to drive somewhere instead of the 8.5 hours you can make it in an ICE. But then again we are definitely people who puts on road trips.
I live in the boonies and routinely do multiple hundred mile trips, in bad winter weather.
Also, the hybrid shown, Toyota's Sienna, maddeningly doesn't come with a plugin. WHY.
Also, I bought a rav4 hybrid which is one of the most common cars on the road here and therefore mechanics have a lot of experience working on these vehicles.
ICE here, goes to the dealership, what, once a year? 13 years in and 135 000 km done with the car (which I bought used, when it was 4 years old).
I ran the numbers yesterday: savings on gas when moving to full EV really aren't that stellar in my case (about 10 000 km/years now: I drive a bit less than I used to) and I have a gas guzzler. Electricity in my country is one of the highest in Europe.
Instead of paying, say, 2000 EUR / year in gasoline I'd pay 1 000 EUR in electricity (much more if using the pricier supercharger).
So I save 1 K EUR / year on gas. OK, but car depreciation? EV vehicles prices apparently do fall like a very hard rock.
Not only that: apparently EV prices do fall even faster than ICE and morever brand new EVs tend to be, compared to a similar brand new ICE car, more pricey. So the fall is even harder.
So as for now I'll keep the yearly dealership trip to deal with those "pesky" oil changes, spark plugs, brake pads, etc.
I mean: it's not as if since my parents (the boomers) and my grand-parents we didn't have ICE cars ownership pretty much figured out. And some of the modern ICE engines are proven to be extremely reliable (so if you DYOR you can buy a used ICE car and be pretty reasonably sure it'll be a good workhorse).
The "you'll save money" argument seems dubious. Your "no oil change" argument seems a bit light too.
I understand the "you'll save the planet" a bit more but I'm a "show me the money (savings)" person.
2. Are you aware that many people cannot charge at home?
Time codes 3:06, 37:07, 43:57, 43:36 (note on the eCVT naming), and 44:17.
I always found most explanations of Toyota's Power Split Device too abstract, until I found this page where you can play with the sliders to see how the power is actually split between the ICE and the MG1/MG2 electric generators: https://eahart.com/prius/psd/
At this point, I assume the only thing stopping manufacturers is their pre-existing investment in other technology.
[0] https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/27512455.html
And if gas goes over $6 I’m buying one for myself, too. I sleep in my car twice a week for work, and being able to run the AC on hot Florida nights will be the cherry on top.
The 2007 is like new except it’s the original battery, so son and I will swap the modules inside the battery pack in a few weeks for some refurbished modules with a warranty. Aside from the battery, the ABS pump is fragile but it is a DIY replacement if you have the time and patience.
Other than that, they just go and go and go, saving money mile after mile.
At least that was my experience with the toaster, microwave, and dishwasher detergent episodes.
While Hybrid System II is very clever and non-intuitive coming from an ICE or EV frame of reference there are reasons even Toyota hasn’t placed all their chips on this bet. In fact as Japan’s largest manufacturer they want to have a bet on every point of Pareto frontier which is why Toyota makes cars with their own competing iForce hybrid design (I’m a big fan of the generator + torque assist), hydrogen cars, electrics, plug in hybrids, diesels, propane and yes gas.
Specifically Hybrid System II is best if you can 1) only have one car 2) don’t have a place to charge it 3) do lots of starts and stops driving around town.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake-specific_fuel_consumptio...
This is possible (and done) in any automatic, but in hybrids it was taken to the extreme, with electric motors covering for situations when either the RPM or torque are not where desired.
In fact, my experience is that during highway driving it's actually slightly off the optimal point, charging the battery in the process. I speculate that it's so that the surplus power can be released immediately by just making the electric motor stop acting as a generator and go into, well, motor mode.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210727090309/https://medium.co...
https://web.archive.org/web/20210825054702/https://medium.co...
> Maximizing the benefit of every battery cell produced requires that we distribute them smartly.
> This means putting them into a greater number of “right sized” electrified vehicles, including HEVs and PHEVs, instead of placing them all into a fewer number of long-range BEVs, like my model X. This is particularly important because presently it is difficult to recycle the kinds of batteries used in BEVs. If we are to achieve carbon neutrality, we must pay attention to all parts of the “3R” process — Reduce, Reuse, and Recycle.
> For example, we hardly ever put gas into our RAV4 Prime PHEV, which has a battery ⅙ as large as our Model X BEV. For the same investment in batteries as our single Model X, five other RAV4 Prime customers could reduce their carbon footprint too.
It does get crazy mileage and drives well so I can't complain. They are more expensive than standard cars though and you can't leave it in neutral which is a problem in some car washes.
I just googled this. I had no idea this was a thing some people worry about. I guess it's a problem if the hybrid battery runs out while the car is in neutral, but there's a meter right there to tell you how much charge it's got if you're really worried about it.
But. The other points made felt muddled or even contradictory. I either didn't follow the TC guy's explanation closely enough, or the script could have used another pass.
I've seen some modern hybrids just have a visualizer for this on the dash to encourage you to coast more and things, which seems about as helpful in understanding it too.
The hybrid battery is super-easy to reach, and since Toyota stuck with NiMH for so long, it's extremely reliable across temperatures, and the cells are dirt cheap.
I have to help family members with car repairs every so often, and the Prius not having a power steering pump, an alternator, a starter motor, or even a normal transmission, means that it's actually feasible to stay on top of repairs as a non-mechanic.
In my brother's Ford fusion, it's a totally different experience, where it feels like Ford cut every single corner they could. I understand that their sedan line was dying, and I could really see why.
To be fair, though, classic "slushbox" autos actually were/are garbage, as are chain actuated CVTs. The hybrid system gets you immediate acceleration like an electric, none of this awful lag you get with a slushbox.
It's hilarious to me that 34mpg is considered remarkably good, though. I know it's a "minivan" but my Golf GTI gets 42mpg and is actually fun and arguably cool. I can also fit 5 people, furniture, and 2.4m lengths of timber in it comfortably.
It's interesting that Toyota has two hybrid models: one for efficiency and one for low-end torque performance.
Also have an iforce max, it’s a weird one since our systems are 288V systems capable of running the drivetrain for a bit and not the 40V “mild hybrid” systems that only run auxiliary systems.
Actually, another thing was that the visibility out of the Sienna seemed quite bad.
Visibility is fine, comparable to other minivans and much better than a few older models. It no longer has rear vent windows, which is a pity.
The software for the infotainment system is horrifying. Everything else is quite good.
One can dream I guess.
The Prius (and all subsequent Synergy Drive cars) were widely known - from the very beginning - to be extremely fuel efficient ICE cars. As time went on, they universally became known to be both fuel efficient and also absolutely bomb proof.
Both of those things surprised basically no-one, since the direct successors (Camry, Corolla, 4Runner, Tacoma, Hilux) were also already known for being fuel efficient and reliable cars.
The only people who really care about why and how exactly they got so fuel efficient and reliable are engineering nerds - and many of those already knew, the planetary gear set + atkinson cycle engine are a pretty legendary design. They hit it out of the park on the first try, after all.
And as this video shows, explaining the why and how to non-engineering nerds takes a good part of an hour anyway. How do you do marketing with that?
After 430km my fuel usage is exactly as per the start of this video at 6.9L/100km.
Being in South Africa, the affordability of this vehicle compared to an EV makes this the most sensible purchase for me at this point of time. Also, it seems that BYD's price might be especially good right now due it trying to gain market share.
I wouldn't buy one with the noise either. I was annoyed daily that there was a loud beep during backup, which is the first thing I had to do every time I got in the car -- that beeping was inside the cabin.
Mine was apparently before that. I bought it strictly for the commute as I was really tired of shifting in stop and go traffic. People talk about having having power from low rpm's like we're drag racing, but the real win is in stop and go. Mileage also great in that situation.
But once the car hit 100k miles, it just became a nightmare with maintenance. Everything was special and somehow tied together.
More of a Toyota issue, but they wouldn't recall the headlights ceasing to work -- each one had to be replaced with their computer control something for $700. Who needs headlights? Also the rubber pad to open the trunk melted -- this happened to quite a few Prius owners in a certain time frame -- toyota insisted we all spilled something that melts rubber on a pad that faces downward.
I would be open to a hybrid, but I just bought a Honda Civic instead.
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This one commercial said, “Forget everything you know about slipcovers.” So I did, and it was a load off of my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell slipcovers, but I didn’t know what they were!
- Mitch HedburgI used this to compare hybrid Camry v. RAV4 – both are clustered on the opposite side of the diagram.
Thanks for the neat link! I went from a turbocharged Subaru to a Toyota hybrid... and the performance is similar with 2.25x the mileage (and no premium gas)! It's neat getting 50+ mpg and still being able to accelerate.
I'm guessing you are assuming that either (a) your time is worth. $0/hour so that waiting time for charging costs you nothing or (b) you have a situation where you can charge while doing some other needful activity.
Filling with petrol is relatively quick and gas stations are everywhere. But still wastes some time.
I posted a not dissimilar comment in reply to someone else: I ran the numbers and in a country with high electricity the savings of an EV simply aren't that stellar compared to an ICE car. It's not clear at all if at the end the TCO is lower or not: basically the savings on gasoline / oil / brake pads may not be sufficient to offset the higher price and faster depreciation of the EV.
You also get regenerative braking with hybrids.
Until charging times get better at most chargers, many people will prefer the convenience of gas fillups.
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It drives like a CVT, but it is not a CVT in the sense people know as far as maintenance and reliability issues. It is just a "differential" and electric motor balancing out the ICE engine output to get a desired output drive effect.
In Germany the amount you have to pay not to worry about every little scratch from a few mm, means I rather have my own scratches.
Then on the Mediterranean islands usually rental is the only option, unless one likes to pay taxis all the time, and most rentals take advantage of non locals as much as they can get away with. Yes some do have buses, if you want to be stuck in the main cities.
It's not like buying an ICE or hybrid instead of an EV helps with this scenario at all.
But the main reason is that those 4-5x/year are when everyone goes on week-end or vacations. Therefore prices are sky-high and availability is not guaranteed.
Renting a car comes with extra worry, even taking that extreme case out of consideration.
You’re driving around a break in magnet, advertising that it contains suitcases.
It comes with highly restricted rules - technically it violates Avis’s rental agreement to pull off onto a dirt median even if you have a flat tire or ever need to drive on a dirt parking lot - strictly anything unpaved like a national park campground site’s parking.
And you’ll reserve one particular car type, who knows what they’ll actually give you. And the tires may be sketchy too (had that)
And they’re be trying ti upsell you all sorts of horrible deals when you reserve and then pick up
Finland, that's another thing.
Where I live it's all apartments (without parking because they were built before cars existed) and there's maybe one charging station on the street per 300 spaces or so. A few more in parking garages but you pay hundreds a month to access those.
I don't think an EV will work here until every space has a charger.
For my anecdote, my (occasional) commute distance is enough that I need to change my driving habits to have enough range/safety margin to make it back home during this cold period. In these conditions, my EV gets roughly 175 miles of range while driving 60-65 MPH with some (resistive) cabin heating. This makes my 150-mile roundtrip not exactly an afterthought like it is during the summer when I have 240-mile+ range ignoring the speed limit. If I couldn't fully recharge at home every night, preheat the car (even garaged it's still bitter cold)
Statistically maybe these edge cases are all irrelevant... But it is a hard limit on what you can and can't do with an EV that ICE vehicle users do not have to ever think about. Maybe once we start getting commonly-available and affordable EVs that come standard with ICE-like range - 300 miles all-season at the minimum - this will change.
Well.. the comment you replied to said "-40C" (which is about -40F too, AFAIK), and, back in time before global warming really hit, a friend used to live and work in an area where it was -40 nearly every day, from late October till March. At least that year I visited that place. I and friends arrived at nighttime and he picked us up at the airport and brought us to where he lived. His car was a small utility car he used for work.. a diesel car. When we unpacked and went inside, he didn't turn off the engine.. when asked, he said he had done that mistake in October (this was now late February), and had to tow the car to a garage, as the diesel fuel had all turned into wax (and this was diesel with cold-weather additives). So, since then, he never turned off the engine. It ran 24/7, for months at the time.
(These days it's much much warmer there, not cold at all, so the above is an anecdote from back in the old days, by now).
Turns out it’s not a major thing
the brake fluid is in the EV as well.
Me and the wife just got a baby and we were like "oh my god I am so glad I live walking distance to everything we need, including daycare and pediatrician". To be fair that is not the average where we live either, but kids are already taking themselves to places around 6 years old and most after-school activities are around the school.
In fact we were complaining that now that we have so little time available it is just so boring to _only_ be 3-5 blocks around our home and never go anywhere else. My wife sometimes just take the bus to go anywhere else to walk the baby rather than just doing it around our area.
I also need 5k towing a few times a year.
I do have a 2nd economy car, and I like driving smaller cars anyway, but having one big car is nice.
What kind of comment is this?
Mercedes Metris, and I average 27MPG driving it like I do my Leaf.
It's also amazing for going to the water and being able to change in it, going skiing and being able to dress out, etc.
SUV's are hugely overrated. I have a 4WD (GX470) and honestly we rarely ever drive it because even for fire roads the van is more than capable enough.
That said, it IS a niche vehicle. I'm rather sad they didn't catch on more.
I have three kids under 10. None of them can legally ride in the front of my sedan. So they had to be in the back. Three of them in one bench seat. Physically possible, and we did it for a while, but it's just non-stop screaming and fights, and with very little space for all their after-school stuff. I threw out my back trying to make their sports and music stuff fit with my baby's stroller and diaper bag etc.
And this is the kicker if you aren't American: everything you do in life has to be done with a car, which means even at two kids, you might be transporting loads of gear every day.
I always thought, like my experience growing up, my kids should learn a musical instrument and play a sport. So if a kid picks cello and the sport is tennis, your entire trunk is filled now. And that's not even with a stroller for your third kid that is not self-ambulatory yet. Forget about a tire inflator, jumper cables, or any other standard stuff you should be carrying in your car at all times.
So with three kids (extremely common in the US), a sedan is practically unworkable. (Again, I'm saying this as someone who would only drive sedans my whole life if I could. I hate big cars and think they're a needless risk and expense for most people and wish we could heavily restrict their ownership.)
Now what if one parent is in charge of the morning stuff then works late, but the other parent is in charge of afternoon stuff because they get off work early.
Now you need an SUV for each parent just to manage three kids with a completely normal set of childhood activities.
I drive a ID.Buzz now, the LWB so it seats seven. Life is immeasurably easier. Perfect timing, too, with the gas price situation, and I keep the car at 80% charge every day, a few hours of charging off one 120V plug while I sleep, everything's gucci.
*edit* One thing I forgot to mention is that carpools to kid events are common here. So extra space to be able to drive one of your kid's friend to the after-game hangout is a of high value. Increases community, etc.
I am not American, and I have had two kids (now adults) and had a hatchback for many of those years. No problem fitting everything in. Split folding seats help a lot.
The biggest car I have had is probably a Citreon Xsara Picasso (small by American standards, I think), and that only for about three years. It was nice to have the space but not essential.
I can imagine needing two cars, and some people I know do, but more than two in all (say one big, one small, and not small by American standards) is rare.
Obviously part of that is that the EV wasn't fully charged when we started, but that's the thing -- being low on gas for an ICE car barely affects travel at all.
Having worked in the field I've been of that opinion for 15 years or more. Two motors and a planetary gear are simpler than a regular transmission. More efficient also, and more reliable. The inverter and small battery may add some cost, but the MPG improvement is more than worth it.
Hybrids are an awesome improvement over plain old ICE, but they tend to get an unnecessary price premium due to their advantages.
[0] https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/27512455.html
Trains don't do the above in large parts because the gears needed either wouldn't fit in the allowed space. (we may not be able to make them large enough either - that problem is solvable but may not be worth it)
The place where they fall behind is at steady state on the highway -- but all of the series hybrid systems on the road have a solution for this problem too! They typically have clutch that engages a one-speed direct drive from the engine to the wheels. This skips the double-conversion losses at highway cruising. Then if you give it some gas to accelerate, the clutch disengages and you go back to full double-conversion again.
I agree in principal that there's efficiency to be gained by minimizing conversion losses, but Honda may be clawing that back with larger and more efficient motor-generators that only package well because no planetary gear set is required to connect everything.
* Honda hybrids do have either one or two clutches to mechanically connect the engine to the wheels at fixed ratios for highway cruising, but their city EPA numbers are still very competitive.
"In that concept, the rotary engine functions as a generator to produce electricity for the battery and electric motor, rather than mechanically driving the wheels."
Excited to see if this becomes a reality
more: https://uscarcover.com/blog/2026-mazda-rx9-review-rotary-is-...
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The engine doesn’t run at a constant speed though, it responds to the amount of electrical power needed.
However, in the USA, in order to get EV status, it was nerfed where it was only allowed to use its engine to charge the battery once you went below a 30% state of charge, and next to that, the fuel capacity was electronically limited.
A neighbor of mine had one, and the engine couldn't keep up with charging the battery to move the car on the freeway + running the AC, because it wasn't powerful enough.
In the EU version, this wasn't a problem, because you could set up the motor to run to maintain a charge (instead of only allowing it to run below 30%).
Edit: 30% state of charge, not 10%.
https://expeditionportal.com/the-extended-range-ev-influx-is...
The latter was sold in the UK/EU and was on the market for two years only.
The Chevy Volt was one and the current Honda CRV is another. Both of them work mainly by the gas engine driving one of the electric motors as a generator while the other motor drives the vehicle. They have a simple eCVT transmission. However, both vehicles have a mode where they directly engage the engine to the transmission at highway speed cruising because that is more efficient.
Nissan has a series hybrid system that they have used in the Note that is only the series hybrid without the direct connect mode. That saves some money.
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I think the most important question is whether the system requires a regular automatic/manual transmission or forgoes one entirely. The Toyota planetary gear system forgoes one, as does the modern Honda and Nissan approaches. Not having a transmission in the traditional sense saves so much complexity that the overall system is net simpler imo even with the additional complexity from having a motor and engine.
Then there are systems that have a full automatic drivetrain and some extra clutches to couple to a motor-generator. And there's even systems with an electronically controlled manual transmission instead. Those systems are going to be incredibly complex and fragile.
It took a while and several explanations for it to completely click for me. The e-cvt mechanism does seem to be quite clever and simpler (at least mechanically).
This does not appear to be a packaging issue, as the late 2000s LS 600h had a V8 with rear-wheel drive (and then AWD) with an “eCVT” in a “conventional” longitudinal package.
I drive my ICE to the dealership once a year, and one hour later the above is all done (in the meantime I drink coffee and read a book nearby). Once a year. I wouldn't call that "constant maintenance and fluid changes". It's "yearly", as in "once a year".
I will be getting an EV in the future (we're setting up our house with solar and a V2H system - Vehicle To House), but that's not because an ICE needs constant engine maintenance. It doesn't.
Generally, recyclers will pay for scrap that has minerals which can be recovered from the scrap.
Toyota Siennas use liquid Ni-MH batteries. It is likely these batteries as scrap aren't being exported, or, if they are, they are exported to foreign recyclers (in this case, many of those recyclers are actually less polluting that U.S. recyclers simply because they built their plants this century and new technology pollutes less). Also, Ni-MH can be replaced one cell at a time to produce "rebuilt" battery packs sold to economy customers, and "spent" cells, which simply fail performance tests, can often be used in other applications that are less demanding than hybrid vehicles. There is a cottage industry here in the U.S. doing these things. Ni-MH that is exported is usually completely dead cells going to a recycler (smelter), or at least that was my experience when I worked in that supply chain.
Li-ion using Cobalt is highly sought after by recyclers due to the expense of virgin Cobalt, so experiences a similar supply chain to Ni-MH. LMO chemistry batteries were the ones nobody wanted to touch, as they have no value, and they are all of the cheap replacement batteries people buy on Amazon for $15, and likely will be the chemistry people will use in their EU mandated replacement battery phones for some nightmare future mass pollution disasters.
The new Honda hybrids are more like a generator + ev, which is also pretty interesting.
This seems like a self-imposed problem, especially in a country with no advanced battery recycling capacity.
I think - that's still a good thing though - as long as the used ex-jap hybrid vehicle can still save fuel.
Chinese EVs n hybrids will probably make that less common as they're cheap enough.
What this means it that you can set up an app like Torque[0] and add widgets that show you how fast each of the motors are spinning, live, and watch what happens when e.g. the engine starts: MG1 and MG2 both torque the engine forward, MG2 just enough to stop the car from attempting to roll backward in response to MG1's torque through the planetary gearset, and then MG1 spins up with the engine and then stops torquing it once the engine reaches idle.
Battery charging while idling is similar: MG1 turns itself into a generator, fighting the engine and generating electricity in the process. The throttle opens considerably, as if you'd pressed the accelerator halfway to the floor, but MG1 and the engine work together to keep the engine's RPM around ~1,200 so you'd never know it - it's as if you're driving up a really steep hill that stops you from accelerating even though you have the gas pressed halfway down. And then MG2 torques backward to stop the car from rolling forward any more than the Prius's normal "simulate a normal gas car's tendency to roll forward when the user lets their foot off the brake" would have it do.
It was fascinating to watch, and I kind of regret not building an app similar to the parent comment's link that showed what my car was doing in real time with the gears drawn out like that.
However, it's a 2L engine and the whole thing puts down 200hp, netting acceleration that beats a Civic SI and ~50 miles per gallon.
They first trialed it in Japan and Europe as the Civic EHEV a few years ago, and as of 2025 it has replaced the Sport and Sport Touring trims' former turbocharged 1.5L power train.
The tool is interesting though the Ford system can run independently on MG2/MG1 alone up to about 130kph (~80mph) depending on requested torque and load.
Only thing Ford screwed up is the battery (or Samsung since this time it's the cells).
That is a myth which refuses to die. Ford developed their own system, and cross-licensed with Toyota over 20 years ago due to commonality of design.
minor details
It's a common problem with them. But otherwise, it's a very reliable car.
PHEV batteries are discharged at higher rate (C) while a BEV can spread the load across many more modules. EV range of PHEV is so small that the battery gets fully cycled daily, while a BEV with similar commute distances and charging can easily keep batteries at a more comfortable state of charge.
The recycling thing doesn't make sense to me. For getting raw materials back the difficulty is the same (get the cells out and grind them), and having more cells per pack should amortize labor cost better.
BEV batteries aren't recycled at scale yet, because there aren't many to recycle. They're easier to reuse for grid storage, since BEV packs already have many modules hooked up to a single BMS.
So this sounds more like Toyota is just supply constrained on batteries.
However, the car may have a very small, old, or weak battery; there may be significant drain on the battery (air conditioning?) while in neutral; and you may be in a very long car wash.
I just go to the car washes where the car stays still now.
You can put the Toyotas in neutral, but you need to lift a special hatch and manually unlock the shifter. You need to do that if you're being towed. It's all in the manual, of course. I saw the hatch immediately. It's crazy to me that other geeks haven't checked every knob and hatch in their car or at least skimmed the manual.
I can put it in neutral, but the battery depletes and eventually an alarm sounds. I had AC on as I live in an extremely hot climate so I suppose it is a bigger problem here.
You can leave it in neutral and exit the car, obviously, but the car is started.
computer could use Otto cycle in case more power is needed in rare situations
Toyota introduced this exact behaviour with their "Variable Valve Timing-intelligent Electric" (VVT-iE) system:
https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/16-01-01_faq_vvt_ie_eng.ht...
It uses an electric motor to control intake valve timing.
Also remember we use different 20% smaller gallons than you do in Europe. 34 miles per US gallon is about 41 miles per imperial gallon.
https://www.carsized.com/en-us/cars/compare/volkswagen-golf-...
In the same US tests with US spec vehicles, the Sienna actually achieves considerably better fuel economy. Quite impressive given the size difference:
https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=49303&id=5...
Ohhhh... That would be it then. Yeah, that's very impressive. I definitely feel like these super-efficient petrols are the sweet spot right now.
I was curious too, I have a manual, petrol engine, Citroën C4 Picasso (called a minivan in English I think? but then I didn't think a Golf GTI was called a minivan so I'm not sure) from 2011 that's not hybrid at all and that's about what I get (7 L/100 km). It's comfortable to be in but not interesting to drive at all though.
I get a very consistent 4,3 L/100 km (54 mpg) on my diesel C4 (basically the same size as a Golf GTI) from 2013 and I like driving this one.
edit now that I've read the sibling comment, Google uses US gallons for its conversions and that's what I've used here.
Also, I love how my 4th gen Tacoma drives! So glad I got a long-bed Trailhunter last year.
[1] https://alternative-fuels-observatory.ec.europa.eu/general-i...
If it is a second car in the family, used for short range commuting ... or if your lifestyle does not involve frequent long-distance trips, EV is perfectly suitable even in Finland.
This reminds me that in Yakutsk, you put your car in a big sock while it’s parked and the car will occasionally start on its own to keep the block from freezing (they don’t have plugs outside, so no block warmers, no EVs). If you leave your car parked long enough, you’ll run out of gas and your engine will probably be hosed.
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Can you stop hinting at things google can’t find, and just provide sources (not AI, since that is necessarily an unreliable secondary source)?
It might be more instructive to discuss what missions a particular vehicle or vehicles enables.
And yeah, people hugely misunderstand needing 4WD. If you aren't off-roading it's not doing much for you.
-sedan for commutes
-suv for bench seats/cargo and typical awd/4x4 secondary
-truck for towing toys, bed hauling the things your wife made a deal for at a garage sale, going to the dump, firewood, bla bla bla, going for rides and looking cool when the weather’s nice
Two cars are always available if one breaks down, or bad weather, whatever. Can trade space and hassle for money if you’re willing to deal with repairs if the used rigs are old.
I strongly dislike SUVs but due to transporting the kids around and their friends, my wife and I have switched vehicles during the week: she drives my sedan, I drive her SUV.
Being able to transport my oldest's friends around has resulted in improved relationships for both the kids, and the parents.
"Last minute sleepover after the game? No problem, I'll take your son and his gear in my car. We'll also pick up a pizza on the way back too. Drop off his toothbrush and pajamas at your convenience, after your other children are fed and bathed."
That's a briefer version of the exchange I had with a family last week, and their response was an audible sigh of relief, many thank yous, and an invite to dinner this weekend.
As long we’re talking driving on roads, the AWD Sienna is basically an SUV. It is not, however, something that speaks to guys who want a specific look or fantasy from their rig.
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Efficiency seems to match or exceed conventional hybrids in city driving, and only slightly less efficient for highway driving. And people like the instant torque and the smooth “EV like” driving feel.
Here in Mexico there's no infra for fully electric cars, and they are still way too expensive.
The Nissan setup is pretty cool in that the generator is quite small, and the car doesn't need all the mechanical parts of an ICE car. It also gives us the range of a standard ICE car. So far it has been pretty good.
With cars the speed range is much larger.
My hybrid (not a Prius, actually) doesn't have a dedicated starter motor, the traction motor starts the ICE engine. The climate control is electric and powered by the hybrid battery (with the added benefit of being able to run the A/C while the ICE engine is off). The power steering is electric so there's no hydraulic power steering pump to fail. I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting. Mechanically, it's just simpler than an ICE engine alone.
> ability to avoid high-stress operation because of the electric side of the power train.
This one is huge, also, and people always forget about it, so thank you for raising it. ICE hate being heavily loaded at low RPMs (also known as "lugging"), and the electric motors alleviate a lot of that low-end workload. It's a big win not just for efficiency, but also drivability, as almost all non-diesel engines make terrible torque low in their RPM range.