hckrnws
1024000^2 Blocks, 2B2T Minecraft Server World Download Project, and Discoveries
(github.com)
182
121
by exploraz
by exploraz
You can do absolutely anything on it. Modded client, x-raying, item duplication. There are no area protections. PvP enabled.
It is difficult to leave spawn :)
https://www.reddit.com/r/2b2t_Uncensored/comments/1tefffd/in...
Ups.
> In July 2018, 0x22 and Babbaj created a coordinate exploit, using the groundwork laid out in the lag exploit. The two theorized that, if the server didn't return a response for unloaded chunks, but returned a response for loaded chunks, the rough location of players in 2b2t could be approximated. However, prplz's patch returned a response regardless of whether a chunk was loaded or unloaded, requiring a second patch to Paper that would only return a response if the chunk was loaded.
> Knowing that the issue would be resolved if Hausemaster reported it to Paper, likely through the method they laid out, 0x22 and Babbaj began intentionally, repeatedly, and blatantly sending CPacketPlayerDigging packets, causing the Paper watchdog process to output a stack trace, which included the line added by prplz.
I should be able to give you a URL to some location, and when you click it, it opens up Minecraft, streams the blocks, and you're viewing it.
minecraft://server/loc?w=0&x=0&y=0&z=0
w is the overworld, nether, end, etc.
And if you want to set up a server where you and your friends can interact with each other and make edits, the server should be able to stream blocks from some backing server, but copy-on-write them to your own local storage.
How is this not a thing?
If you want to be really awesome, set it up like bittorrent, where you can share the load, so the central server isn't hammered.
And if bittorrent doesn't really work as a model, then set it up so that "downloader pays" for bandwidth, plus a small royalty for the creator. As a downloader, I get to set up rate limits, etc, to not accidentally spend more than I want to, etc.
This whole 2b2t would cost $2,111.04 to download from AWS, if I'm doing the math right. But that's a trillion blocks. You don't need a trillion blocks to enjoy flying around some awesome maps.
What do they mean by this? I understand that it would be a download on the order of 26TiB (if we extrapolate from the recent 200k^2 download, which is a ~1TiB torrent[1]). If bandwidth costs are the issue (certainly it's an issue) they could throttle their seeding speed and let the swarm seed it. That's what bittorrent is for.
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/2b2t_Uncensored/comments/1tefffd/in...
The map is 30Mx30M blocks so outside of the very center you'll not see that much player activity.
DonutSMP is the largest Minecraft server today, the overworld is 225,000x225,000 blocks and the map is modified wherever you look.
I did Nazi that coming.
Does it mean botting there is just pay-to-win?
Background: Only heard the name of Minecraft.
And thanks to that, people are extremely motivated to find various 0days in anything related to minecraft, to gain an advantage.
This server spawned some notorious black hats :)
Never underestimate the power of severe weaponized autism!
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Egregious bugs like item dupes are also patched; but while they last, they're allowed.
I know 2b2t is old enough to have had many different eras, but when I heard about and checked it out in 2018, the spawn was barren, of course, but I had no problem leaving and surviving out to a pretty far distance to build a little base.
As long as that anything doesn't consist of putting anything bad in chat or a sign such as a cuss word like "shit" or building a build or map art that someone may find offensive.
If you want to do absolutely anything you need to find a different server.
There are other servers who are small enough to continue to have actually anarchy and who are willing to require having alternate domains to bypass the blocks.
[1] https://eva.ac/
2b2t wants to provide a certain anarchy server experience which would not align with that kind of functionality, spending quite a bit of effort in the opposite direction really, so this project is more about fighting to do cool things on the server than it is about dealing with Minecraft limitations.
There was an interesting base project wherein the true coordinates were only known to the top leaders. All other builders connected through a custom client that offset the coordinates to hide the true location. If anyone became untrusted, they were simply blocked from the client and could not expose the coordinates. There was care taken to ensure the area outside the proxy was never shown, block place directions were randomized to prevent reversing the proxy, etc.
The base apparently thrived for months or years before finally being discovered and destroyed.
It's all based on the seed and coordinates.
[0] Plus you can get live player positions, update markers in real time, etc.
You'll be confused by Minecraft in general then. Mojang's core team seems like they never changed a bit in all these years despite becoming a billion dollar studio, for better or for worse. Last time I played it, mods can still make the game run twice as fast.
They used to talk about wanting to store block update relationships to prevent BUD (block update detector) behavior. I didn't like it at the time, but from a certain perspective it would have been an improvement. Instead they spent their complexity points on pointless memory waste.
Hiding bases is absolutely vital. There are groups with goals to destroy what you build and it is completely a core part of the server.
Having a live external map view compromises the gameplay allowing those griefers significant advantages. And they already do find exploits and such to sniff out targets but a live external map would be server ending.
> minecraft://server/loc?w=0&x=0&y=0&z=0
Probably no real reason why not... but I think it'd make more sense to take a snapshot, upload, and then have it viewable on the web.
> And if you want to set up a server where you and your friends can interact with each other and make edits, the server should be able to stream blocks from some backing server, but copy-on-write them to your own local storage.
How is this different from just loading your world in a server and having your friends join?
> If you want to be really awesome, set it up like bittorrent, where you can share the load, so the central server isn't hammered.
BitTorrent isn't going to work. You could shard it so different parts of the world are handled by different servers. But it gets complicated and Minecraft's server software doesn't support doing this out of the box
Because player location, inventory, actions, are all load on the server. That's why servers have player limits.
> BitTorrent isn't going to work.
You and I are talking about different things. I'm talking about serving up the raw blocks alone.
And yes, I know, Minecraft servers don't support static file serving, or streaming from another source, or copy-on-write. I'm saying these are all nearly trivial to implement.
So shareable cloud saves? Who covers the cost for them?
So, I set up a server.
You put $10 in your Minecraft account.
You load up my world, say 96 chunks at first. 1.15 MB of data.
Let's say you fly around long enough to load 1 GB of my world. That's a crap-ton of flying around, by the way.
You pay me $0.10. $0.09 of that goes to my AWS/Azure egress, and the final $0.01 goes towards the AWS/Azrue storage and my own royalty. That's right - I actually get paid for making a world that you wanted to visit. Imagine that.
Maybe I can't even get that money back out of Minecraft's walled garden. Maybe I can only use that to fly around other people's world, or to buy Minecoins that I can use to purchase mod packs and stuff, to make even more interesting worlds, to attract more players.
Seems like a nice economy, to me.
Great, now I have to study Minecraft to learn about human tendencies in anarchist societies?!
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The server have a pretty long non-priority player queue wait time with most of ~1500 you mentioned waiting in the queue (about 2/3 of them), even hitting two days last time I read it somewhere.
> And of the players online probably half are bots which don't build.
which might be why the queue wait time went insane over the recent years.
People sprawl far to prevent PvP encounters.
A heavy automation anarchy server is the perfect kind of messy data for this.
HN is great but sometimes has the ultimate “tell them about the features instead of the reason why you should care/benefits” posts and many people probably miss out on good links as a result.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48181033
The TLDR is a Minecraft server with ""no"" rules, where hacked clients, item dupes, and griefing are allowed. Only thing that's really banned afaik are lag generators and things of that nature that explicitly stress the server and ruin the QoL for everyone.
Rather than killing this comment, how about we discuss quantification? I actually feel this way too but do not talk about it too much and sort of boil it down to a combination of advancing in age + yelling at clouds and "Stop putting computers in all my stuff!".
Can we reliably quantify that "weaponized autism", i.e. the aggressive monetization of nerds by capital to squeeze profit out of every possible corner of society (as I interpret it in a broad sense), is making things worse. Is it damaging the economy for most people? Making people less happy? Decreasing net social mobility or discrimination? Lowering life expectancy?
That's not what that term means.
Also that comment wasn't killed directly. That user is banned. Interestingly that was his first (attempted) post since 2022.
Note. In case this is read incorrectly. For the most part the nerds are not profiting. The nerds are sitting hunched over their desk being fed coffee from a feeding tube, to keep them happy while the owners make money.
And. To be more sad, these days you can't even get free coffee. Being fed free coffee and donuts, while others profit from us, is considered the golden age of computing.
We loved our cozy cells, not so much these more uncomfortable ones.
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There are some theories that Autism was more useful in the wilderness. More adapted to the old world, not the modern world.
In a general sense, humanity needs to be generalist (especially in the past) to accomplish all the things you need to do to stay alive. Having all 20 members of your tribe geek out and stare at a problem for 48 hours straight means a bear sneaks up and eats you. But having that one oddball (hey me) fall into a rabbit hole of observation and mental computation can lead the group out of a local maxima into a new paradigm of doing things.
Here's another server saying the same thing happened to them: https://minecraftonline.com/wiki/Mojang_Blacklist_Timeline
Here's a mainstream source, though it doesn't have any new information: https://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/gaming/15-years-late...
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Do you have a grudge against housemaster?
Minecraft worlds aren't static. Will you be billed to download updated chunks too?
Also what happens if you don't put money into your Minecraft account? Can you still play with others?
> Seems like a nice economy, to me.
On paper, sure. In reality there are only going to be relatively few maps people might actually want to explore. The rest are going to be 99.9999% Minecraft procedural generation with a few player built houses around. And no, I don't think a tiny cut would change that. You're more likely to see people set up servers with that map which are pay to access, have item shops, donations, etc. which actually can rake in a decent amount of money.
There are two hard problems in computer science - caching, naming things, and off-by-one errors.
Yes, I can imagine multiple choices.
1) When you're downloading a chunk, always download the newest version of it.
2) When you're downloading a chunk, download it as it existed at the moment of a snapshot. Heavier burden on the server, to keep multiple snapshots. Perhaps some servers only keep one snapshot. Perhaps some keep one snapshot every 24 hours, but only for 4 days. You only have to keep multiple copies of chunks that actually got modified. And in fact, if a chunk never got modified, you only download a flag that says to let it get generated by the seed.
3) You periodically ask to download chunks, to keep relatively up-to-date. Maybe every hour. Maybe you only stream chunks from the backing server, if you haven't modified them locally. Maybe you choose that locally-modified chunks win. Maybe there's a way in-game to say you want this chunk (and its neighborhood) to update from the backing server. Commands, command-blocks, etc.
> Also what happens if you don't put money into your Minecraft account? Can you still play with others?
I'm not proposing to change anything about how Minecraft currently works. I'm proposing adding something new. Whatever ways you currently play with your friends, you can continue to do that.
But yes, if you stand up a server that streams from my server, and you run out of money, you could get notified you're out of money, and then as you continue to explore, I guess the thing that makes the most sense is that you just use the original seed to generate more terrain.
> On paper, sure. In reality there are only going to be relatively few maps people might actually want to explore.
Okay. Right now, you can visit the Marketplace to pay Minecoins to download maps others have made. If you look at the prices, they're absurdly inflated.
I'm proposing a way more organic and cheaper marketplace. I think a "reddit of cool places to visit" that you just click a link, and you're in someone else's map for as long as you want to be, could be really nice.
Add ways in-game to make a portal to someone else's server... and you're making something really neat.
None of these will work properly. If you do copy-on-write where both the upstream server and local client make changes then the chunks you (or your local client) made changes to cannot be updated from the upstream server. However, neighboring chunks can still be updated from the upstream, which means you get holes in buildings pulled in from the upstream world.
> Right now, you can visit the Marketplace to pay Minecoins to download maps others have made.
Cool, that's the way it should work. A snapshot stored in the cloud that you can run in a server or locally. Before this existed people posted saves online that you could download and play.
> Add ways in-game to make a portal to someone else's server... and you're making something really neat.
Pretty sure this has been a thing on modded (Java edition) servers for a long time now!
Many are self hosted.
> The difference is instead of only serving 50 people before lowering fps, instead now it can serve much more.
2b2t has 920 players online right now. That's quite a lot for a single instance, IMO.
I wonder what a book series that tried to do that with autism would look like.
(I can think of exactly one book where autism - or something close enough to it - was treated as a serious "what if" plot device, but I don't want to name it because it is a little bit of a spoiler, I guess.)
Trying to diagnose people across millennia is a fool's errand, but I'd wager a lot to say that people like Newton & Tesla were at the very least neurodivergent in some way, and they've had wildly outsized impacts on the world.
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If I'm trying to tour one of the beautiful servers that people have made, yes, it absolutely would work for my use case.
I'm sorry my idea doesn't appeal to you.
Acting like it has no value for anyone means you don't understand my use case, or you don't care about me. It may entirely be my fault that you don't understand my use case, but I think you're being obstinate.
Cheers.