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There's a high chance of devices being sold with GrapheneOS preinstalled in 2027
(grapheneos.social)
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by Cider9986
by Cider9986
- This is about preinstallation. For the planned models, you can install GrapheneOS yourself. This should be really simple, if it is similar to the current installation process for Pixels, which can be fully completed through their website.
- The preinstalled devices don't seem from Motorola themselves, as mentioned later in the thread: Probably not via their website but rather another company provided with the devices directly by Motorola. It could be us doing it ourselves but we aren't set up to deal with it.
Really excited for the Motorola GrapheneOS phones! (Currently have a P10P with GrapheneOS.)
My hope is that Motorola will be very successful with that. GrapheneOS currently has half a million users and growing. The more users it gets, the more interesting it is for manufacturers to actually consider it.
Google being Google, if Motorola gets a relatively cheap phone to run GrapheneOS (the flagship is quite expensive IMHO), I think people will flock away from Pixels (I definitely will, and I will tell everyone and their dog that they should when they renew their phone).
The 2026 Signature, in the UK, is $1460 USD. In Brazil it is selling for $1230. The Pixel 11 pro XL, which the Signature beats on hardware in practically every way sells for $1300 on Google's website.
It looks interesting... I didn't love the 2026 design [1] but it looks better than whatever this is. Here's pictures:
[1] https://www.motorola.com/gb/en/p/phones/motorola-signature/s...
I presume this bit is because Motorola can't sell devices with android builds that aren't certified by google (as per Google Mobile Services contracts)
The official GrapheneOS docs contains a developer guide on how to fix banking apps when they are not working. Bank app developers have been surprisingly receptive to making the changes, weirdly enough. You can see in some of the issues tracked on the site where people reached out and the developers eventually made the apps work.
I've been running GrapheneOS for a while (I have posts on the blog in my bio if you want to see some day-to-day info) and only one bank app gave me trouble. I had to toggle a setting and then everything worked.
Separate from this is wallet and payment apps which still have not had much traction on GrapheneOS.
I will also accept "Sending my consciousness back to my 2016 body." Better yet, 1996. Got some things I wanna fix.
The only way a bank cares is if enough users complain and leave for another bank. Banks (like all companies, but especially banks) care about money and nothing else.
Also, I would like no DRM, no serial id, no support for device verification, no trusted environments, re-programmable IMEI, no locked bootloaders, no proprietary code and no telemetry in any form or shape.
i really like the pixels, and haven't been fond of motorolas in recent years
So, 7a at your pricepoint:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/820099695470
But, it's only supported for 1.6 more years.
So that puts it at $143 per year of support. While the 10a [1] will be supported for 6.4 more years, which puts it at $55 per year of support.
I do hope the Motorola's are a bit repairable though, e.g. no screen glue. Does seem the next phone choice will be between Motorola or Fairphone. Sucks one is likely to choose between security or repairability...
If they use Google SafetyNet to basically block everything non-Google-certified™ then no.
now give me a device with a mechanical switch that gaps the radio power physically
[dead]
Did you mean "than"?
I love Linux (been using it as my daily desktop for decades), but we're a long ways off from a true Linux phone.
If you wish to steal from someone, select from a population of thieves since they won't go to the police (although they may use illegal means to punish you).
Going with the stereotype that people doing illegal things prefer a secure OS (and are not smart enough to pick a safe source).
That is a total install base right? Unless all 500k of them are upgrading yearly, this number is miniscule. You are underestimating the R&D required to put out a new phone each year only to have 30% (high estimate) of users buying it. That's 150k devices, which is not worth any volume.
Also, the GrapheneOS user base is really growing rapidly, plus I’ve seen quite some people who want to run GrapheneOS, but don’t want to give money to Google, so they might switch when there is a Motorola alternative.
Outside raw user numbers, I think there may be other motivations for Motorola. First, the way they pitched it, the seem to want to position Motorola + GrapheneOS as a secure alternative for business users (so, they may bring in new users themselves). Plus there may be strategic reasons for them to do that. Google has been tightening the grip on Android. Supporting GrapheneOS as an alternative could also be a message to Google - we have an alternative if you tighten the grip too much. Kinda similar to how Samsung has their own App Store, etc. as a message to Google.
It is but the cost of making that phone is nearly the same for Samsung and Motorola. You're discounting the fixed costs here.
If it takes $10M to produce a phone, the numbers need to make sense before it makes profit. And you need to have deep pockets to keep doing it until it becomes good.
So yes, 150k in first year might be red, but you must be willing to put up another $10M next year and another .. to slowly get to say $500k in year 5 before it turns profitable. Will Motorola have that appetite? maybe not.
Also I am genuinely interested: is it that hard to meet GrapheneOS' requirements? Feels like it shouldn't take years of R&D for every new iteration. And also that it's about getting the right deals with the suppliers, which is not really an R&D issue?
What does add ongoing cost is doing monthly driver/firmware/kernel/etc. updates. But IMO they should be required by law. Just doing the minimal ASB patching is not keeping your users secure.
Sub 200 is immediately off the table but a refurbished pixel last time I checked was about $400 post tax. They have long (7 years now) support windows now which is also a bonus.
Wonderful hardware but f*k Sony with the update policy.
My last Xperia was I Mk 2. Nominally flagship. Great hardware, great spec, I loved the form factor.
It got one major Android update and total of 18 months of security updates since the release.
Like, WTH?
No more Sony for me.
I update pretty frequently, but all the older devices get used by family members, etc.
~750€ for the Motorola Signature, with 512 GB storage
~900€ for the Pixel 10 Pro XL, with 256 GB storage (the 11 Pro XL costs much more at ~1200€, since it just came out a month ago)
Get your update process working @Motorola!
It just puts Google in the same sandbox Google puts everyone else.
Typing this on a pixel running graphene.
Yes, you can do that, but Graphene is probably best used without Google apps at all. If you use Google Maps, sandboxed or not, Google still knows where you are, what speed you drive, etc, and can rat you out to car insurance companies or the government.
That totally depends on your goals. For some it's security, for some it's privacy from Google, for some it's removing the ability from Google to (worst case) remote brick/block your device. The latter may sound a bit far fetched, but if I was employed by, say the ICJ, I would know what system I'd run to avoid that.
One of the things that I like about GrapheneOS is that it accommodates all these use cases and on a gradient (e.g. personally privacy from Google is also important, but I like that I can use sandboxed Google Play Services with most of its permissions removed).
Stock Android (AOSP) misses stuff like Call Screen, Hold for Me, Direct My Call, Digital Wellbeing,
If it was the same the hostility like this wouldn't matter that much: https://www.androidauthority.com/google-not-killing-aosp-356...
I've heard some people had good results by going to their bank branch and demanding them to unblock their phone or they'll close their account. Apparently they have a checkbox to disable phone attestation requirements for a customer.
So anyone reading this, be aware your experience may differ.
I'm on a pixel 10 pro and have never been able to get some of banking apps to work, despite the list saying they should.
Curve works in Europe and Paypal has a trial thing in Germany for tap to pay IIRC. There's nothing in the US unfortunately, yet.
That's only weird if you live in a perpetual state of doomerism, or have bene influenced by those who are (youtube influencers, mostly)
Of course there was a simple explanation for banking apps not working the whole time. It's the doomers who turned it into a vast conspiracy with an all-powerful megacorp at the center.
GrapheneOS has convinced apps to add compatibility. Hell, Roblox has official GrapheneOS support. The idea is to get more users in order to convince the very few apps that block GrapheneOS, to support it.
At any rate, there is a well-maintained list here: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...
I don't regularly use an actual bank account anymore, the cash management solutions from these brokerages work great and can do everything including direct deposit, payments, wire transfers, and ATM/debit cards, and have SIPC protection in place of FDIC.
That said, the website still works fine for that one.
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There are other Android distributions that run on practically any Android phone you have, look for LineageOS. Even your phone is not explicitly listed as supported, using Claude is easy nowadays to adjust the distro to run on your phone perfectly.
Furthermore, sound cryptography isn't dependending on specific hardware to function, with that kind of reasoning we'd never get encrypted communications anywhere. So stop inventing excuses and for once in life look deep into how they are financed, which apparently is OK to be as opaque as possible as to whom is paying them so much money.
I'm curious how many months/years before out-of-date GrapheneOS becomes the worse option security wise compared to various brands' stock Androids. Obviously it is nuanced and there's no clean answer but it would be interesting on average.
We could think of metrics in public patches, but GrapheneOS has exploit protections that prevent against 0-days which would be hard to factor in.
Considering Motorola is doing a lot of the porting, I would guess it will be improved or will be easy.
I had a low end Oppo 'something', I remember the RAM had a 16bit data bus, the whole thing had a peak theoretical bandwidth at just over 4GB/sec. That phone sauntered through the workload at the best of times. The Mediatek chip was probably not the weaklink for once.
On the upside the battery could go well over a week between charges.
Xiaomi and Huawei will likely adapt their supply chains accordingly. =3
Librem too
* terms and conditions most definitly apply and will change on the sole discretion of freedom©®™ inc.
AppleCare specifically covers water damage of any kind, and is what I would assume OP would be referring to as a "premium warranty and repair service".
The standard iPhone warranty disclaims water damage [1] and Apple has been sued in the past for using humidity activated sensors.
ApplecCare is as much a warranty as their Apple's phone are guaranteed waterproof.
It's marketing.
The 3 year warranty add-ons is an insurance. One can get an insurance for any device.
And if you truly are ultra budget $300 phone guy then sure this doesn't apply to you.
I hope that a few years down the line there will also be great midrange Motorola phones with GrapheneOS support. But they have to start somewhere.
I just keep buying phones with way more features than I desire just so that having too many apps open at once or going to the wrong Javascript laden web page doesn't slow my phone to a crawl. I just tell myself that at least I only replace my phone every 5 to 7 years. If it wasn't for work, I'd keep them longer, but the OS has to be patched for work stuff to be on it.
The Pixel phones are precisely that, and they are the only phones supported by Graphene for now. The a-series is a particularly good value and I am posting from one.
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I think if work demands a better phone, then work should be buying you a better phone.
but they bumped up prices significantly a few months ago due to chip prices or tarrifs or who knows what, it's not so cheap anymore.
In my experience this is literally the iphone SE. Look at the chipset, its no slouch.
I could see myself splashing out on a more expensive phone if it were less locked down - so probably never. However I don't play games and as a Gen-Xer my laptop is where the rest of my digital life lives; it makes sense that those for whom the phone is their primary device would prioritise it more (especially with somewhat predatory financing).
Over decades of buying Android devices, I have yet to pay more than $300 for one. The one I'm using was actually free in exchange for buying a year of T-Mobile prepaid credits. No, it never was the fastest thing on the planet but it makes calls and runs the apps I want.
Miniaturization costs, and I would expect a flagship phone to cost at least as much as an equivalent CPU/RAM/storage laptop. The cost of miniaturization, modem, camera and OLED more than balances the bigger screen and keyboard/trackpad.
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That said, I will keep on replacing the battery until the circuit board itself turns into ash
But our appreciation keep getting skewed because flagship phones make leaps forward.
Can you provide a source that they've said this recently? This seems to be a bit of a misrepresentation.
They say:
>The Play Store app is also the most secure way to install and update apps from the Play Store.
on /usage, but this does not indicate it's the most private way or that it's the recommended way to install apps. It seems to me to indicate that this is their assessment of the security of the ways to install apps that are distributed on the Play Store, not a recommendation or privacy assessment that applies to other apps or to their users in general.
They don't recommend against Aurora Store [1], but it is not user friendly as the Play Store because app installs frequently fail and automatic updates do not work as well. Installing apps from Aurora has the advantage of no google account, but Google is still handed a list of all the apps you have installed, IP address, app details, device details, and GSF ID. It will likely stop working or become even more broken. It is useful when apps block installs from the Play Store because of play integrity.
I use it myself for the few Google apps I install like Camera because I don't want to install play services.
I would consider their actual recommendation to be their own App Store and Accrescent (alpha).
Obtainium is great but not user friendly.
The claims about problems with F-Droid are true. It's not like they oppose FOSS, their whole operating system is FOSS and they've never said anything bad about IzzyOnDroid, which fixes the problems with F-Droid and even adds a bit of security.
[1] https://nitter.freedit.eu/GrapheneOS/search?f=tweets&q=auror...
Cash and Monero are private so they're in a different space and are what should be prioritized.
I fail to see how that's significant at the banking level. What does Stingray mean in this context??? Signal??? It's just a messaging app. You can use a VPN or Tor.
Your purchases still go through all these routes on the payment processors side. And you can use Apple pay offline–it's just NFC.
You realize ever card purchase (when where what how much) is logged and stored for like 5+ years (probably forever). Yeah I'd probably prefer not to add Google to the mix but your carrier only sees DNS logs not the encrypted content.
If you want any privacy whatsoever in payments use Monero and Cash: https://eylenburg.github.io/payments.htm
https://github.com/PrivSec-dev/banking-apps-compat-report/is...
Furthermore, Android's ecosystem is structured in a way even the most basic software security concerns, like not running a comically out of date kernel, depend on the vendor's blessing, and sadly most manufacturers, including very desirable ones like Fairphone, hadn't been keeping up with such duties. Porting new kernels to old hardware is an extremely inefficient time-consuming endeavor that will take up most of volunteer time to non-satisfactory results; I can testify to that as a former member of the Ubuntu Touch project, and our standards of security were comically lax.
Again, you CAN lower your standards of security and go for the lesser evil: many people run Lineage or Ubuntu Touch despite known gaps in their security models. But to make that choice, you have to be honest about what you're compromising. If you shut your eyes and plug your ears pretending everything is fine, you'll end up with someone killed because they listened to your uncritical advise.
Also, I struggle to see how it's GrapheneOS's fault choosing the most secure hardware on the consumer market because it might be deemed suspicious to own it. GOS could have chosen the most popular budget Samsung (ignoring the aforementioned security issues) and it would have the same effect. Besides Pixels aren't an obscure unusual hackerphone made in small quantities, shipped from out of the country; it's among the most popular phone brands, advertised from huge billboards I pass on my bus route to university. If they chose something like the PinePhone like Genode, this point would be somewhat defensible.
Finally, what's up with the repeated conspiratorial insinuations about financing? I admit I hadn't looked deeply into this question, even as a one-time small donor, but what are you expecting to find? Is it serious concern about the financial health of a project, or an attempt to manufacture a hysteria around some controversial donor, similar to the Tor Project?
It won't change reality, doesn't matter how many paragraphs you write. The fact is that all that security is useless when using hardware that is compromised from the start. And I will repeat this again: any NSA supplier does bug their hardware and they do this for decades until finally admitting, just need to take a look on the NSA museum.
Stop promoting suspiciously funded Android distributions that run on even more suspicious hardware by groups that routinely promote state-sponsored tools on their social media.